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HIRED! The Podcast With Travis Miller
Welcome to HIRED! The Podcast, where host Travis Miller dives deep into dynamic dialogues with top hiring experts. Join us for candid conversations that transform companies into coveted destinations for talent and empower candidates to stand out from the crowd.
HIRED! The Podcast With Travis Miller
AI, Networking & Marketing Strategies for Growth (Ft. Colleen Hayes) | Ep. #44
Welcome to another episode of HIRED! The Podcast, hosted by Travis Miller. Today, we're joined by Colleen Hayes, a distinguished Global Strategy and Marketing Executive, to discuss the evolving job market for executives, the critical role of networking in job searches, and the intersection of AI with modern marketing strategies.
Join Travis and Colleen as they discuss the challenging executive job market and the superior efficacy of networking over traditional job applications. The episode also covers the significant impact of AI on marketing, emphasizing creativity and data analysis while highlighting the irreplaceable value of human insight. Additionally, Travis and Colleen share essential strategies for personal and career growth, including continuous learning and the critical role of marketing in talent acquisition within the tech industry.
Colleen Hayes is a forward-thinking marketing and strategy leader with over two decades of experience at leading global organizations such as Lotus, IBM, ThermoFisher Scientific, Broadcom, and Teradyne. Known for her strategic insight and deep understanding of global markets, Colleen has driven significant growth and revenue gains throughout her career. She holds an MBA from the Kellogg School of Management at Northwestern University and a Bachelor of Arts in Speech Communications from the University of St. Thomas.
Leadership is Not Enough: An Operator's Guide to a Performance Culture by Dr. James Chitwood - https://bit.ly/44z53gB
Remarkably Bright Creatures by Shelby Van Pelt - https://bit.ly/3wpQTC1
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Connect with Colleen Hayes
LinkedIn - https://bit.ly/3QzZHMi
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#executivejobs #career #networking #marketing #marketingstrategy #ai
You need to be able to prove to people that you are better than the AI output.
Travis Miller:Welcome again to HIRED! The Podcast a conversation with the best and brightest about the world of work. I'm Travis Miller. And with me today is Colleen Hayes. Colleen has been a leader in marketing and strategy for some of the most iconic tech companies out there, including IBM, Thermo Fisher Scientific, Broadcom, and most recently as the Vice President of Strategic Marketing for Teradyne Robotics. Colleen, how're you doing today?
Colleen Hayes:It's great to be here with you. I'm excited to be here.
Travis Miller:Yeah, I'm excited to have you here. So I recently left Teradyne robotics, what have you been up to? Since then I've heard some interesting things.
Colleen Hayes:Yeah, it's, it's been a recent change for me. And during this time, where I'm looking for a full time job, I've had the opportunity to meet with a lot of people I've worked with before, and I'm doing some strategic work for them. Right now, I'm doing a little bit of consulting as I look for that next position.
Travis Miller:And I'm really excited to talk to you because to be able to get a firsthand perspective from somebody, proverbially speaking in the trenches that's able to see what the actual landscape is like, despite all the reports you hear, and companies have their own separate challenges and strengths and weaknesses. But what is it like out there right now, as an executive in the job search market?
Colleen Hayes:You know, it's interesting, because as I've been thinking about making this change that I just made, I had the opportunity over the last quarter, I probably reached out to about 100 of my contacts. So I have just to reconnect with people and find out how are things going with them whether their markets, like how are things moving forward. And I'll tell you, it's a mixed bag out there right now, there's some people that are zigging and zagging. There are some people that have found the right thing right away, I would say, depending on where what kind of organization you'd like to be at, I think it makes a difference. What I'm finding from the people I've spoken with, some of the larger organizations are still a little harder to get into at the executive levels. Right now, there hasn't been as much change, there's a little bit of hedging still going on, I think those openings are a little bit harder to get into right now. If you want to go the startup route, I think there's some really good opportunities that are out there. Do you want to be on the ground floor of some exciting new tech companies, I think some of the contexts that I've been working with, they've had really good success. So if you want to be somewhere in the middle, that's something that I'm a little bit more interested in, maybe not super big anymore, but not super small. Because I really enjoy helping businesses scale. So when they're, you know, ready to get, you know, going for their first billion, that's really exciting to me, I think that's a mixed bag in there, it's finding the right entry point with the right position. So this is from people that are doing a variety of different roles. Now, you know, I've talked to people that are in product management, people that are in sales, people that are in other marketing, you know, capacities. So I think it's been kind of a mixed bag right now.
Travis Miller:What's your insight on that, particularly, on the larger companies? Why do you think there is less movement now a little bit more conservative mindset?
Colleen Hayes:I can't really say that I have, you know, a silver bullet as to why I think there's still some change going on there. I think many that I've seen have been hiring from within. Nice to see too. And some are looking for some fresh blood, but they're taking a little longer in their searches. So it's just I think part of it is a duration thing. They're not as quick to to make that change.
Travis Miller:Got it. So I'm not surprised that you've talked to so many of your of your contacts recently, because you told me before that you have a rather interesting method of how you approach your youth how you've approached your job search strategy in the past.
Colleen Hayes:Yeah, you know, it's super interesting to me, because I had a lot of time to reflect about, what did I want to do next, right. I, you know, I'd love to the job that I had it turned on robotics. It was great. It just wasn't the right fit for what I wanted to do next. So I had to start to think what do I want to do next? And as part of that, I was thinking how, how have I gotten my jobs in the past? And I've been around a while now and as I've looked back at all the positions that I've had since college and my first internship at college, I got because I knew somebody. I was talking to somebody that knew somebody that knew somebody, and they made the connection. And I had I got the interview, you have to put in the work. By the way, it's not that it's just that somebody, you know, did that, you know, they were competitive rolls all the way through. But it was somebody gave me the door that opened or at least the context that I could, you know, weasel my way into the door. Right. So my strategy, for the last few positions that I've had has all been networking first. It's not the only tool in the toolbox. But it's been the most effective for me. And I did an analysis on when I left IBM, I think it was in like, 2017, I left IBM, and I did an analysis about how many jobs I applied for 75 jobs. I think it was online, as the through this process. And out of it, I got maybe 25 responses back. Hey, we got your resume, like that was it like I just thinking, Oh, my God, they have all these automated systems? Why am I getting like, Hey, where's knowledge that you exist? But I didn't know. But you know, I'm sure it's improved greatly since then. But it was surprising to me. But out of that, I probably got really five meaningful interviews. But when I looked at from the networking perspective, I put in, you know, less than 75 and got probably 20 meaningful conversations. So from it's a numbers game for me, and I kind of do the analysis. So from my standpoint, you know, there's you should probably activate as many channels as you can like as a marketeer. That's why I think about it. Networking is certainly one aspect, applying online as another making sure that you're visible on job sites, I'm sure that's another certainly I keep, you know, myself visible there to maybe reaching out to, you know, recruiters, I've reached out to some that hasn't been so far, like, a leading way that I thought it might be. But, you know, I'm gonna use every avenue possible.
Travis Miller:I can see that, like you said, it's a tool in the toolbox. And talk to me about how you utilize this networking strategy. Because, you know, when I think about using networking to find a job, I think of calling up people I know and saying, Hey, I'm on the market, I'm looking for a job. And that seems not great to me.
Colleen Hayes:You know, it's not bad, though. And I think if I were, if I was talking to someone about this last week, if I could go back and tell my younger self, what would I do different in my career, one of the things would be to just stay in touch with more people more frequently. So it's not just when you're looking for a job. But it's hard. And you meet a lot of people through a long career. And, and that's hard. But when you reach out, I think there's, at least what I find in the way I've been conducting these is that I am upfront saying, I'd like to reconnect with you, we haven't chatted in a while I have some time right now, as I'm looking for what my next thing would be. And I'd like to connect. But I also and people aren't responsive, I've had really good responses. Some people don't get back to you right away, because they don't look on LinkedIn, or they don't look, whatever they do. They missed your email, you just can't feel bad about it. I'm sure they still love me, do they help reach back out to them again. But you know, there's others that are like, Oh, I can't help you right now. Or I'm too busy right now. Whatever, that's okay. But people are really open to, you know, helping you out. And it might be just a thought partner with you about how to do this. And then I've been able to give back during these processes to this is where I've said, you know, I'm doing some consulting work now, because people are saying, Gosh, I could use you right now, though, to do this. I don't have a full time position. Or do you know of anybody that could do that? Or do you know, those kinds of things and those connections giving back in that dialogue? It's not just all about me, when I really care about what they're up to, and how I could maybe add value, maybe it's passing along something I read or connecting them to somebody that they really need. For example, somebody was talking to me about a position that they were like, well, maybe it'd be interesting to see if you know, you really want this person over here. I just talked to her last week. She's got the exact skills you want and she's in the market today. So I think it's just making sure that you're authentic about what you what you want to get out of it, but also being a real networking partner. Right giving back a lot And the way I think that's, that's critical to the success of that working.
Travis Miller:Yeah, that's a good way to put it. And you wrote recommended a book to me about this. And in it, Nathan Perez, who wrote the 20 Minute networking meeting said, listening is learning and networking is given take, don't be tempted to talk about yourself, or what you're indeed have. It's that give and take the give and give, versus the take. And the take, and I think you you exemplified it well, that you're, you're not calling these people to say, I need a job. It could be part of the conversation. But it's, you want to know what their world is like. And if I think you're, if you can fit into a part of it.
Colleen Hayes:Yeah, and you know, it's been, it's been such a great. Networking has always been this for me, but I'm just thinking reflecting back over the last couple of months, when I've been really spending a lot more time doing it again, I have been invited to learn more about AI with some of the biggest AI leaders in the market, because I'm interested in and they know I'm interested in, I have some time, I can go do that. So I can go listen to speakers that I wouldn't have been looking for thinking about offered back speaking things. So where I can maybe lend a hand and speak at a college or something like that to where somebody's like, oh, you know, this would be really helpful for me, I've got a graduate class that I'm working with, could you come in and speak for a while, sure, I can give some real life perspective, just something like that. So it, it's certainly opening my eyes to some of the other things that are happening. I am a aspiring tech nerd, I guess, not a technical person, but I love how technology and science are changing the world in which we live. So keeping up with that is then something that I've always been doing. But now I get to do it in a in a deeper way. During these networking, I'm learning a lot people are recommending books for me to read and, you know, places to go. So I think it is that learning part.
Travis Miller:What's the what's been the most interesting thing that you've learned with this, this opportunity that you have right now?
Colleen Hayes:Oh, the most interesting, you know, I think I'll have recency bias. But I went and saw a couple of speakers last week at a meeting that we're both they've been in the machine learning and AI game for, you know, almost eight years now. And so understanding how they really are viewing AI as a good tool to augment the human experience. And, you know, really thinking closely about what are the ethical things that we have to be careful about? And how does you know, what's real, actually get surface versus when you put in a lot of fake news, for example, and what what might come out to other things, the way AI is being used? And, you know, what are some of those concerns? So I thought it was a, it was great to hear some of these visionaries that have been doing it for a while, talk about the fact that it is a great tool to help productivity and to help creativity, but it is it's augmenting the human experience and making us better. And it's, it's kind of like, like the machines were to the Industrial Revolution, right? If the farmer now has a good piece of equipment, or the person in the factory isn't doing everything by hand, they've got some machines to work with. Now, as humans as a knowledge worker, we have some additional tools that we can work with. But it also had that, you know, what do we need to be careful about as we move into this, and it's happening so quickly? So the biggest learning of the last week or so.
Travis Miller:What do you see- What do you see as the most dramatic shift that AI is going to have on the marketing industry and people working in the marketing industry?
Colleen Hayes:I think, you know, it's so interesting, because, to me, marketing has such depth to it now, like when I first started in marketing, you know, there was no social media, like I'm that old. There was no social media and there weren't the great tools, uh, you know, you know, the web was just kicking off and stuff. And so now all the analytics of this art and the science, I think a AI plays two very different roles for us in marketing. One it can really help us analyze a lot of our datasets and get better understanding about the our customers and how they're reacting to our messages and you know, how different channels are performing and it can give us some good it can help accelerate even the social listening about what what are the real reactions and you know, Before that would take, you know, a service to do those things for you, we can get more of that more quickly. And then on the creative side, I think it does really help. Accelerate, I've been using it, you know, for a while now, and, you know, it kind of jumpstarts things for me, I never accept anything that gives me ever that you know, the way it's written. And I don't think as marketers, we probably should, because we should have a unique value proposition to everything we communicate. And so if you're taking something verbatim, that's coming out that's been through a whole bunch of other things it's hard pressed to say? Or is it really unique and authentic to your brand? Or to you as a person? For example, what either way? I think that that's an incredible tool, though, that can help people accelerate? Oh, could I try the positioning this way? What if? Or how would that relate to other things in the market that you wouldn't necessarily think of? Right? And you could kind of test those things and say, how would it feed it back? So I think it's a great enabler for marketing, both on the analytics side and on the creative side.
Travis Miller:I think it's, I think it's a great way to put it, I read a post recently, and I can't remember who wrote it, I'm going to find it, and I'll put it down in the show notes. But it was somebody who worked in marketing, and the company fired their graphic design team. And they brought in people who branded themselves as AI prompt generators. And after four weeks, they were all gone company Kandhamal, because they couldn't kick anything out, they could get the basics, right, they could get it started. And they'd bring it to the, to the marketing manager. And he'd say, okay, that's, that's a good start. But I want this part change, or I want these colors different over here, or what, can you combine these two images, and they couldn't do any of that. They couldn't prompt it to change what it had already done, they could only prompt it for something new. And if you had a graphic design person who was skilled in how to utilize a AI to get started, but then had the talent and wherewithal to be able to manipulate that original prompt that it was given. That's where the magic happened, because AI still can't I don't think, and maybe I'm not sure it ever will be able to fully understand the art of the human mind, they can get the idea.
Colleen Hayes:I think that humans are human for a reason, right? Because there is this emotional connection, and everybody reacts differently. So the machine is collecting a whole bunch of other people's reactions to things. But it's still not going to know how are you personally going to react? Right? And, and do you know better than the machine on how else you're going to break ground in new areas? Right, the innovation, so I kind of viewed as, that's not surprising to me, because they should be learning how to prompt things. I think all kids coming out of, you know, universities and stuff today, you know, that's going to be like part of their tool set when they leave college. Right? It's going to be just as important to knowing the grammar, it's going to be how do I do the right prompts? And then how do I take what it gives me and use my own critical thinking? And I think that's one of the things that, you know, we need to make sure that everybody can continues to have that critical mind, I think now, being a critical thinker is more important than ever, because it'll be this is one of the things that, you know, came out of this side conversations with this meeting I was at last week is it's easy to get lazy. Right there. I think about how many people take the headline news right now, which even journalism has really on unfortunately, taken more of a backseat now, because that investigative reporting that kept government and city, you know, documents and really pressed and investigated things. They're not doing that anymore, because the speed cycle for things is super fast. And you know, people aren't, you know, the whole publishing business has gone down in terms of volume and revenue and all of that kind of stuff, so that they were part of what kept the critical thinking so alive in our society. And now, it would be easy and I can see this in some of the people that are talked to that are in various generations. I won't even say just the younger generations, where they kind of just take things at face value. And I think, I don't think we can. And I think as we're, the more we get into the AI, world, and the more it's impacting us as knowledge workers, it makes our critical thinking skills more important than ever. And as you interview for new jobs, you need to be able to prove to people that you are better than the AI output. Right? And that only comes because you can critically think so if you can't keep those skills sharp, and don't really know how to bring that forward. Yeah, you'll get can't write because you're not bringing that that extra value, you, you know, because other people that are critically thinking, they're going to figure out how to do the prompting whether they're taught in school or not, they're going to get really good at it, so that it can accelerate their productivity and get them to think about other things. But you have to do that critical thinking.
Travis Miller:What are your suggestions for people to continue to hone that critical thinking muscle?
Colleen Hayes:Well, I think the biggest thing that any of us can do is always learn. So that means reading, I think a lot. It's it's good that there's lots of methods in which you can get information. I think there's some of the things that we're you're pushing yourself to read some more nonfiction that's maybe deeper than you'd want to go. Like, I have a little rule for myself, I get one fun book, I just finished a fun book last night, which is great. But then I go and I try to look at some of the, you know, business books in different areas or the tech books. So I can learn a little bit more. So I kind of rotate when I'm spending my time reading. And I certainly read a lot of articles, but the articles only go so far. And to really make sure you're honing your critical thinking skills that helps one of the speakers at this conference that I was at, he was saying, you know, if I could recommend it, anything I tell everybody to go read all the classics, because those people you know, and all the philosophers and I was like, Oh, my gosh, I'm not sure I'm ready to go back there. But I think he's got a point, right? You've got to you got to push yourself, not just for the easy read.
Travis Miller:Yeah, no, I can see that. And, yeah, and there's probably a happy medium there. I can't imagine sitting down and, you know, plowing through Ulysses or something, trying to do that again. But to mix it up. I mean, the fun books are great. I just finished reading Shogun, the new series is out. I wanted to read the book before I before I started the show. But also, one of our own Casey Chitwood her husband just put out a new book that I just ordered, and I'm excited to read it. What's it called? I'm gonna plug him a little bit, because it looks great. Oh, leadership is not enough. an operator's guide to a performance culture. Can't wait to read. It sounds lovely. What was the fumble? You just finished reading?
Colleen Hayes:It was called the remarkable what was it something remarkable creatures? Oh my gosh, I can't remember. But it was it was a silly little book. But it was heartwarming and delightful about an octopus and a whole bunch of other characters. And they've certainly very smart because octopus or octopi maybe they're called I don't even know. But they're smart creatures. But it was a fun, you know, heartwarming book.
Travis Miller:I think that that sounds great. And I think that's part of learning that's part of keeping those critical. skills sharp. And I, I think with a lot of people, they it's not that they're lazy about it. But it's so easy to get sucked into a monoculture where you latch on to an idea, and you just find reinforcing evidence that continues to enhance that idea to the point where all other ideas that aren't that idea are wrong. Anyway, I kind of wanted to ask you a little bit about what's your advice for new people, people who are a little bit newer in their career, maybe just starting out or first second jobs as an executive, in industrial manufacturing, in technology, and in marketing. What can these people, these younger people in their career, what can they do to set themselves apart? Not only to make sure that they're not replaced by artificial intelligence, but also how to set themselves apart from their peers?
Colleen Hayes:I think that's I think that's a really good question. And it's funny I was meeting with a former colleague that's a little later, they're earlier in their career than me from IBM just yesterday. And we were talking and I was listening to him and what he was saying that he wanted. And then he was telling me what he liked doing. And I was like, Are you sure that's what you want to go after? And we talked a little bit more, and he's like, Oh, my God, you're right. I think I really want to do this. Instead, I'm like, I'm not trying to convince you of anything. I want you to think about it for yourself. So I think the first thing is to really kind of know, what is it that you want to do? What do you like doing? The other thing that I think about, and I still do this for myself, and I do this for everyone that I hire, is I want to know what they want to learn and get out of the job. What skill are you going to learn that's new to this from this job that you haven't learned somewhere else, because if I hire somebody that can do every single thing on the paper that it says this is the ideal candidate, like my gosh, that person's gonna leave me in six months, re aren't, they're going to know everything, they're gonna get bored. And I want high performers, high performers are always going to keep learning and doing and I want those people to come in hungry enough to learn. So I think you have to really identify, what do you like doing? And what do you want to learn? To find out if you like doing it, I think especially early in my career, I took some lateral moves to try different things. Right. I did some sales, I did some channel work, I did strategy. I did marketing, and I did lots of different types of marketing, right? I think I've done almost all of them. To find out where is what do I love doing? And what do I not like doing. And I think that's important. And I think early in your career, too. You get, you can be pretty good at a lot of things. If you click the muscle and do it and say I'm going to it for this year or two years, I'm going to learn how to be really great at, you know, market intelligence, and how to read all these analyst reports, how to synthesize them, and be really great at it. And it might not be something you want to do long term, but you're gonna get really good and understanding of part of the business or something. So I think being open to not just a straight career path to go somewhere, but more around, what are you interested in? And what is it that you'd like to do every day? Because that's what makes an employee really thrive, is if you're in a good fit to something that you enjoy doing, or that you want to learn and find out. But it's not really what you want to do long term, that's okay, too. But you're going to get good at it and that you're going to bring that toolset with you and that thinking in a different way. So I think that's a good piece of advice for people is don't think that it has to be this, you know, vertical line that's going up it, I don't think that's a good way to think about it. I think about it as more about your own personal growth, and about where you can build upon your strengths that you already have. Because I think that's that's a really helpful thing to, to think about what am I good at? And how can I continue to do what I'm good at and learn something new? To me, that would be an important fit.
Travis Miller:It's like that silly little graphic that I see on LinkedIn every four or five days. What people think success looks like what success actually looks like. Yeah. Well, then I gotta take this opportunity to ask you, what do you what is it that you like doing? And what is it that you want to learn next? Oh,
Colleen Hayes:that's a that's a big ask. You know, I've had a lot of time to reflect on this. I should just jump back a little bit further, if you don't mind. I'm going to segue back to something earlier in my career that I did. Even though it was late in my career, I went back to graduate school after I got into a strategy job. And everybody on my strategy team had an MBA from a really great school. And they all have these frameworks and all this stuff that I could do. I just didn't know that they existed, right? Like I had to go think about it and and so I went back to graduate school, and I was thinking when I left there acts like, you know, now I'll really know what I want to do. Then worked up thinking, oh my gosh, I'm doing what I love. Like I walked out knowing a whole bunch, we looked at tons of different case studies two kinds of businesses. And I was like, You know what I really liked doing I like doing b2b marketing. And I like doing it in the context of complex things where science and technology really aren't together. And and I that really excited me because I thought I was probably going to leave and you know, go do some b2c You know, thing or, you know, maybe go the GM track and then I decided after I did a couple operation rotation things in class was like, wow, yeah, I could do it but wouldn't like to do it every day. So I think that's something And now that I'm reflecting about where I want to go now, I actually love the full range of marketing strategy, thinking about where are the headlights? Where where should this business go being more of not just the demand generation part of it. But I also like the execution, how do you bring that strategy to life through the organization. And that is really exciting to me that intersection of strategy and execution. So I want to do that as a chief marketing officer, at, you know, a company that's trying to scale and wants to be that first billion go for their second billion, right around that space, because that's where I think there's a lot of room to think about, how do we, you know, take what we've done so well, to get us to this point. And what do we do to really bring that customer insight in and help us develop the right execution strategy? Because I did a lot of what do you call that? Advising when I worked at IBM, I led the startup and entrepreneur program. So I had the opportunity to meet with startups all over. And I would never do technology of I had a team of really great technology, guys that would do the technology, advising, but I would do go to market advising for them. And you know, the thing that always stunned me is they all thought they had the best technology. But there's a lot of great technology out there. But it doesn't always win. And it doesn't win, not because the technology is not good. Sometimes they have better technology, but they didn't have the right go to market approach at the right time for their customers. So that's why I think that part of the scale of things is kind of fun. Right? Trying to figure out what do we need to do right now to take advantage? What's happening in the market?
Travis Miller:Yeah, if you have the best technology, it doesn't matter if nobody knows about it.
Colleen Hayes:Yeah, that Yeah, that's true, too. Yeah.
Travis Miller:Well, that's where you come in. That's where marketing comes in. You may exist technology, but you need somebody to tell people how great it is.
Colleen Hayes:Exactly. Exactly. And get them to think that they really need it. Right. And they might really need it and just not know that they do or think what I have is good enough. But is good enough really good. depends sometimes yes, sometimes no?
Travis Miller:Yeah. So this is something that I have. I'm really curious about as an executive in marketing, how much time do you think companies are spending on marketing, their company, marketing their employment brand as a great place to go and work? Is that is that a strategic thought? Or is that something that just happens by circumstance,
Colleen Hayes:there is a huge need, especially in the tech sector. And in automation, too, right? Because we need to attract and automation, tech savvy people, because we don't have enough workers and then have the skilled workers have new skills, and that's going to be technology oriented. So I think, I think it's a really important thing for people to be thinking, how do they bring that right skill set to the table, right, getting the right skills. And in doing that, and to do that, that means you have to attract the right people. And the only way you can attract the right people, is by having a good place that they want to go, the market is really competitive to get those great minds, right. And if you want the best of the best, you know, in this day and age, word of mouth is your number one brand asset, whether that word of mouth is coming from your employees, which largely it will be right. And then then it's going to come from your partners and your customers. That's where people are going to start to really know the real brand, right? You can put up all the, you know, ads you want anywhere else. But when people start to really say, what does that brand really feel like making sure that you're understanding what your brand values really are, and that it's incorporated into the fabric of your business that helps to cultivate the right culture. And people want to work for companies that align to their values, especially the millennials and the Gen Zers. They are particularly picky. And I think that's brilliant. I really I applaud them for saying, this is the kind of company I want to work for. And there's all sorts of different companies in their values. So some people might be saying, I really want to work for a company that really wants to go for profits and wants to be the leading company in their segment. That's great. There's going to be others that are saying I want it to align to the fact that I'm really concerned about the planet and I really want to make sure that their environmental policies and their sustainability, so all of that that's really But my number one thing, whatever that thing is, there's not a good or a bad in it, but your company values and how it resonates within your communication to your employees and how they, how they're interpreting that. That is the basis of your brand. So as a marketeer, I think it's more important than ever, that you pay attention to cultivating the right values and culture within the company, because they will be your number one voice outside the company. That's my belief.
Travis Miller:Do you think that that holds true? And is there anything else smaller companies can do that don't have a large voice in the market that don't have a known brand or presence so that any things that they can do to give themselves a slightly greater advantage over organizations that do have that well known voice? Well,
Colleen Hayes:but I think that the it's, I don't think that matters by the size. I think as you start to look at things, there are people that are going to be that I see when I've been talking people that gravitate towards the fact that they want the energy of a startup, right? But even when they're going to the energy of the startup, right, even though they might be in a pivot, they might be doing whatever, they're still that what do they think that brand means to them? Whatever that is. And so the company, whether it's because of the founder, and what the temperature of the founder is, and the culture that that founder is setting, that makes a difference. So I think as long as you're clear about whatever size company you are, whatever stage you're in, that you have a good sense of who you are, or who you want to be. Because there is a point with, you know, most companies, especially if they're going from a startup to a scale up to a big company, and anytime and there's an executive change, it does give you an opportunity to rethink what what kind of company do we aspire to be next? What does that look like? What does that vision mean for us? And I think that that's an important thing to be clear about, and that everybody knows what that is. And that's what attracts people, because not everybody wants to go to a big company. And some people are really set on that. But when I talk to those people, they're looking for a kind of a niche, either through a technology. But once they find those technology companies, there's a million AI companies out there right now, how are they competing? It's competing based on the kind of culture and the arguments. They're
Travis Miller:more cloud Valley and this has been fantastic. What's, what next? What's next for you? What should people be reaching out to you about? And how can they find you?
Colleen Hayes:Well, you can find me on LinkedIn. I'm definitely up on LinkedIn, so you can reach me there. And from my standpoint, I am looking for my next role. But I'm also looking to meet interesting people that in this guise of the networking that we were talking about, that, you know, if there's something that I can learn from them, or I can help them along the way, I you know, I welcome those conversations to if I can help another colleague along the way, I think that's a great thing. But for me, personally, I'm, I'm looking to get that next Chief Marketing Officer role in a scale up company.
Travis Miller:Exciting. Well, Colleen Hayes, thank you so much. Big thank you to our producer, no, Acuff this has been hired the podcast and we'll talk to y'all soon.
